Curse

lama_lord36 · Dec 20, 2005, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Lol i never had those problems you know why??? It's about 3 months ago i joined a normal team to the uw. I always go with my trapper ranger and some guildies or friends.

Hockster · Dec 20, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate

So don't be a Mo/W. Every one that I've seen is wasting half his skill bar with stances anyways. You're there to heal and aside from mabye using /Me to steal energy so you can heal better I can't see why you would be so adament about your secondary. It takes like 15 seconds to switch secondaries and if you've never switched it then you're probably so inexperienced that I don't want you in my party anyways.

You're another one I wouldn't want to group with either. Too biased to be any sort of a decent player.

saphir · Dec 20, 2005, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medion

Sorry, but the bold text is incorrect (I am 99% sure).
The Solo-Monk will die when:
You stop the enchantment
Someone strips your enchantment
Or when he just dies

Yes, I can confirm this.
When you die, all players enchanted under UA will live, their aura will simply disappear. I've filed a /bug before but who knows if it would be fixed.

As an mo/w I use sprint, one of the best skills to lose aggro for a caster in pve. The less self healing for me means more heals and energy for the rest of the party. Sprint is also good for saving that errant war or ele who got too far in front, and for making a fast get away when something's gone wrong.

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Dec 21, 2005, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barinthus

After reading about Unyielding Aura, that's a great idea. I can't wait to get my hand on that skill *evil grin*

As for Vital Blessing, I fail to see how that'd deter those pesky solo monks?

Having done a 55 build on my mesmer to farm Griffons, I can tell you that if something is even the slightest off it gets harder to do it. For instance, Vital Blessing. Vital Blessing at Max adds over 160 health to them. I mean, we're talking about a build that usually runs at 55 health. The way it works is that Protective Spirit decreases damage down to 10%, meaning 5 damage a hit, no matter the hit.

If someone has 220 health, they'll be taking on 22 damage a hit. From a group of even 3 Aatxe's that's about 66 damage a second. Even +10 Health Regen only covers 20 health a second. They'll be dead before they know it.

Once the solo monk is dead, you rez them with Unyielding Aura, which is basically a leash on their soul. If you take off that enchantment, they will die. Meaning they have to do their very best to please you, so you dont decide its time for them to die.

As for dying and not having it taken off them. I pretty sure I can double click an icon quick before I go down.

Barinthus · Dec 21, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Gotcha - thanks, Omnipotent Dude

Y.T. · Dec 21, 2005, 07:04 AM // 07:04

vital blessind is the best idea - i can do it easily since i switched to pure prot for uw. i'm gonna give it a try tonite

but if u see smbdy casting balt on themselves it can be ok - if u're running pure prot build and u're a designated bonder prolly u want to put both life barrier and life bond on both tanks and then put balt aura on urself. it gives u more enrgy than 2 essence bonds and u have only 1 negative enrgy arrow. with blessed sig u'll be able to cover it easily and even run blessed aura for better aegis/prot spirit or div boon for extra heals (whatever u like). or be mean and take this vital blessing, +200+hp i my case (16prot). of cos it means that u have to cast blesssed sig non-stop but it pays off - ur healer monk dosnt have to heal that much and dosnt need constant enrgy boosts, u can bring another damage dealer instead of bipper battery, so mb if u see ur monk casting smth on ur tanks and only then balth aura on her/himself she/he actually knows what they're doing

Rc The Mad · Dec 21, 2005, 07:35 AM // 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

You could nearly eliminate the probem by never allowing Mo/W's in your group.

I use a Mo/W as a healing monk, and I can solo UW with a Mo/Me. (obviously I have two sets of armor)

This is a completely false stereotype, and I hope no one follows this. It would screw a lot of innocent healers.

Battle Torn · Dec 21, 2005, 09:22 AM // 09:22

I was in a party in UW last night and guess what...we had 2 Mo/W in our group both 55hp. immediately I asked them to ping their health etc which one did and one did not. The first monk was such a nice guy and totally sympathized with what I was saying and he seemed annoyed about the scammers too. The other guy didn’t even answer me. I told the leader to kick him but he didn’t. Anyway we got in and immediately I started watching them which is a shame because I should be concentrating on the battle. First thing I noticed was NO BUFFS!.... wtf?....UW and your not buffing your warrior??? this has to be an attempt to sabotage the group so we all die and they swan through to farm...there is no other expliantion. I cant say this enough to any monks in UW with a team...forget it unless you have buffs for your warriors and use em. I don’t think we had a dedicated healer or prot monk, but 2 monks with solo builds which wasn’t much use for anything else... and don’t get me wrong they didn’t leave us during battle, but we didn’t get past all the aataxe's anyway. My point is that there is no use using a solo build when in a group, I mean how would you like it if I brought my Griffon farming build to UW? I dunno maybe they had buffs but hoped the party would get killed and they would be last alive to go farm!!...in fact I would say that they were intentionally playing bad.

funny thing was that I was left alive with one monk who then ran and took the quest instead of rezing anyone...when the mobs spawned he died pretty quick and myself a while after. Im sure this was an attempt to get me killed but it backfired on him first.

What is the world coming to... as if monks weren’t hated enough already.

PS MONKS!..dont blame us for they way we feel, blame your colleagues!

saphir · Dec 21, 2005, 02:02 PM // 14:02

lol, solo monk scammers suck!
i think the biggest misunderstanding some of the party leaders out there have about solo monks is that they can res. there is no room and no need for them to carry a res. the build is self contained. energy, heals/prots and damage are all for themselves.

here is what scamming solo monks can contribute to a uw party:
1. healing breeze/orison - not going to save your tanks from an aatxe, or a caster from graspers
2. mending - i don't think i've ever seen a solo monk cast mending on someone else, they deal w/ enough energy regen problems as it is
3. prot spirit - they cast this in order to pretend to be a prot monk at the start, but once things get going if they aren't constantly casting spirit on themselves, they will almost certainly die
4. shield of judgement - the only worth while skill they can contribute and 99% of the time they will just sit back wanding. they don't want you to live, they want you to die of course, but not before you take down several aaxtes and graspers along with you.
5. spellbreaker - the last person they would be using this on would be you

with 2-4 enchants on themselves depending on their build, you're not going to see a lot of spell spamming from them unless they are under attack and can regain the lost energy. so they sit back, relax, and plink away their 1-3 dmg on the mob.

however, a party can also be built around a solo monk tank. i've yet to see a uw group kill faster than 1 solo, 2 support monks and 5 damage casters (nukers/necros/mes in any combo)

Battle Torn · Dec 21, 2005, 02:10 PM // 14:10

it would have worked alot better i the monk tanked and I stayed back smiting

maybe thats the way to go?

wilebill · Dec 21, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

Battle Torn, this happened to me just once in the uw, but it happened so the evil mo/w's are really out there and they are really doing it.

When it happened, I thought it was really funny, but it happened to me only once. When we got there, the mo/w immediately rushed off and gathered up all the ax's he could find and brought them to us. It was enough, and we all died, except him, who finished them off. Of course at that point he wants everyone to quit in disgust. But I and one other hung in just to watch his technique, which was excellent. He did quite well.

Battle Torn · Dec 21, 2005, 04:25 PM // 16:25

yeh their farm build does work well, thats why they use it

yes they are out there and its getting worse since the nerf making the aataxes more difficult for the farmers.

This has really put me off UW...think Ill just save for the ectos and do FoW to get the obsidians

manitoba1073 · Jan 11, 2006, 05:21 AM // 05:21

well i have a 55 monk i UW with alot, not just for farming, i always try to bring someone else or groups and i say straight up front that i will be the first tanking and clearing the first chamber, as usually that is the hardest part for most groups. y let ur wars get hurt like that and end up with so much Dp they really arnt effective. truthfull there r realy few spots that a war shines in UW, no offense there as i have a war to i used to take to UW. and if u have a healler monk in the group ask them who they would rather heal a war or 55 monk for the first part. and i usually do pay the entrance fee for the group as i feel its a nice treat. un like most of them if something drops and the timer expires i pick the item up for the person if that cant do it. yes there is scammers out there, there r ways to fix that prob. unyeilding arua is one of them. but the fastest way to ID a solo monk once ur in just look at what they have in there hands. and urself should bring rez and stay alive. hell ive used the scammers alot to do my work for me. that sthe best way to do it. oh by the way my solo monks name is mia temaro. and i always look for groups when im not in the mood for soloing. hell i get bored and try to find all kinds of ways to take ppl. if ur a noob to UW ill take u to show u what its like. i used to run tours and pay for FoW with my war while paying and the only thing i ever asked then was if i didnt get a shard drop if someone would donate one so i could continue paying for PuGs. and u know the complaints about us 55 Mo/W is valid to some and i mean SOME. if u want to try to figure out just do like they did in WW2 ask tehm a question that us in USA would know, unforntuantely u might get the euros too but hey. so if u see me there LFG for UW with my monk ask me to join or invite urselfs ill show u the real joy of having a 55 monk in ur UW.

Battle Torn · Jan 11, 2006, 09:03 AM // 09:03

Fair points, Im sure you are a good and helpful player. The problem is that there is a 'larger number than usual of scammers using M/Wo to cheat their way into UW' for the purposes of wasting the groups time and money so they can solo. Its happened a few times to a group I have been in now and its been getting worse. Perhaps other monks dont notice this as much because...well theyre half the monks usualy in the party so the chances of a scammer are halved for them.

Im not biased about M/Wo, perhaps I forgot to mention I have one myself, the problem is this is such a blatant intentional scam. if your in SF and a green drops for you and you die...all except the monk who doesnt rez you and picks up your green.... then thats opertunistic scamming and thats bad enoungh...the UW M/Wo scam is intentionaly done knowing fully that they are using you for the entry fee etc before you even set off. Allso a 55HP build isnt a team build. We need monks to heal and protect and smite... not to tank....its a selfish build for a PuG.

For all you M/Wo's asking people not to be predjudice against M/Wo 55HP build.... tell it to your comrades, they are causing the issue not the people getting fed up with the scamming.

Sister Spice · Jan 11, 2006, 09:12 AM // 09:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by saphir

and they'll say their build is prot. Then if you're in uw, you will hear the inevitable enchant sounds, and no non-solo monk will cast balth's spirit on themselves. A real monk doesn't want to be hit.

I don't have a 55 monk

but the above quote misses a KEY Monk build

Bond Monks can and generally DO use Balths Spirit

bond/bond/bond/bond + Balths equals lots of energy
it also means we spend a lot of time in between battles running our blessed signets so cant type much between battles...

All the generalisations have their exceptions - so making a sweeping 'no Mo/W' . 'no balths' etc will make it harder for you to recruit monks that you DO want in the team.

However. TALKING to prospective team members, planning a mission etc seems likely to be much more effective - still not foolproof, but I find putting effort into recruiting rather than lazily adding anyone with the right initials makes for better teams

Spicecat

Manic Smile · Jan 11, 2006, 09:18 AM // 09:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by remmeh

my monk is Mo/W and constantly switches between 55, passive prot (barrier+bond), active prot, and full-out healing setups. please don't bash the Mo/W.
reason: i don't use any of my secondary for my passive prot, active prot, or healing builds! WHAT A REVELATION! get a clue.

Who cares about the 10ish times this has happened to me...when you're not party leader and the idiot doesn't listen...just because you don't abuse it we should all ignore the reality...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raku Clayman

The game should only be for game players and only honest game players.

wow...what world are you living in...that's the norm man, D2...FF11...WoW...it exists EVERYWHERE...sad thing is one fulltime ingame mod/dev with permaban abilities could really do some good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volarian

all the comments about M/W being an indication of a SoloMonk or Invinvimonk are a clear sign of how ignorant the vast community is. You don't even need a secondary to Monk in order to have a solo build.

Same thing goes for the 2 man - every monk seems to think that N/Mes is the end all to be all?? N/Mo was the original build to tag along and does as well or better in my experience. No nrg concerns, more dmg and since we all experience interupts at bad times or a sneaky NM....it's nice to not have to start all over because you're running partner can't rez you.

yea but the majority of the asswipes are Mo/W....or at least were...i know all those asian bots were last time I did UW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate

So don't be a Mo/W. Every one that I've seen is wasting half his skill bar with stances anyways. You're there to heal and aside from mabye using /Me to steal energy so you can heal better I can't see why you would be so adament about your secondary. It takes like 15 seconds to switch secondaries and if you've never switched it then you're probably so inexperienced that I don't want you in my party anyways.

/N > /Me for pure mana purposes anyway

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barinthus

I'm a Mo/W and I wouldn't do this to people. It's not fair to me that I'm lumped with the rest of those lying moochers.

And it's not fair that blacks get descriminated against as a race because of a few...but it happens.

saphir · Jan 11, 2006, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sister Spice

I don't have a 55 monk

but the above quote misses a KEY Monk build

Bond Monks can and generally DO use Balths Spirit

bond/bond/bond/bond + Balths equals lots of energy
it also means we spend a lot of time in between battles running our blessed signets so cant type much between battles...

All the generalisations have their exceptions - so making a sweeping 'no Mo/W' . 'no balths' etc will make it harder for you to recruit monks that you DO want in the team.

However. TALKING to prospective team members, planning a mission etc seems likely to be much more effective - still not foolproof, but I find putting effort into recruiting rather than lazily adding anyone with the right initials makes for better teams

Spicecat

heh, let me qualify that. I'm not trying to say that balth's spirit is the only skill a solo monk will use, but it's either that or mending first, and generally both will be cast. You know there's something probably something wrong w/ your bond monk if they are casting both mending and balth's spirit on themselves, while holding a sword/axe and a necro cesta and not casting and bonds.
A real bond monk of course you will see actually start casting life bond and/or barrier on the wars. A solo monk will just stand there..

anyway, the real point of this thread seems to be that solo monks are rarely your friends in a party. they're are limited ways to detecting them, and although i'm usually 90% right in picking out the soloer's before we zone in, there's of couse no foolproof method. if i suspect one, i just bring vital blessing along just in case.

as long as no consequences exist for these scammers, they'll just keep taking advantage of the system just like most players take advantage of any other exploit in gw. the sad part is that the vast majority of players going to uw either don't know or don't care. i've broadcasted the names of the repeat offenders in toa several times when said monks are present, i've pm'd party leaders to warn them, but people are so desperate to have that mo/ primary in their party that they don't even care. It's pretty much just blatant self-delusion sometimes.

when it does happen, i just kill off the offending solo monk =)
i generally have little trouble keeping a party alive in uw as the sole monk, and i believe it's good training for the others in the party on how to manage aggro and keep themselves out of danger. i often have to let some of the party die however in order to control aggro - some of those rangers and casters just have _NO_ clue how to keep the aggro on the tank.

Poised · Jan 11, 2006, 03:51 PM // 15:51

Just have the suspected 55 monk cast his heal or protect spells on you as soon as you zone in, if he cannot cast 4 or 5 heals/protects, then he is prolly geared up for something else ...
Yep you will loose money going in, but so will the monk, and you would loose money anyway if the monk just struts off on his own, this way at least you get SOME satisfaction calling his bluff before he gets a chance to exploit your trust.

Lord Iowerth · Jan 11, 2006, 07:40 PM // 19:40

It's not just monks, there is an increase in Underworld jerks all around (refrence this thread I made)

When not trapping, and taking a balanced team (some of my guild don't have their rangers ascended yet, and hate being spectators ... they genuinely want to help ... so great) often we end up with one of these exploiters. Two things that immediately come to mind are:

Take them out in the black curtain real quick, and make them cast each spell on their bar, report their health, etc. then when it is satisfactory, go back in and run to grenth before they would have time to re-skill (thank god you can't put skills in sets like weapons

) We've done this several times with great success, and most pick-up monks understand the need for this, even if you are the first to explain it to them.

The other thing is: these people obviously mess up a great deal solo'ing, or else they'd have the money to pay for their entrance ... wouldn't you agree?

Talonz · Jan 12, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mysterial

Easy solution: The drop timer doesn't pass while the player they're assigned to is dead. Then just leave your computer on for the night and deny the monk lots of loot

That'd also fix the issue where in a PUG you die in battle normally after some valuable item is dropped for you and the rest of the group refuses to resurrect you until it becomes available and one of them steals it.

Actually I don't think that works, unless it is something special for underworld. I've seen a few IDS's go into the wrong hands that way.